My American women friends in Moscow say that something odd comes over their boyfriends when they move to Russia. Take a nice, sensitive, responsible average American male, who has learned to share the housework without complaining (much) and take pride in his girlfriend’s professional achievements, drop him in Moscow, and in three weeks he turns into a sexist pig. His apartment is a sty, knee deep in dirty socks and take-out pizza boxes. He starts smoking unfiltered Camels and drinking vodka straight. He drops his accomplished American girlfriend and starts a series of affairs with 22-year old Russian beauties with legs that don’t quit. American women moan in despair. What happened to their men? What does Russia do to them? What Russia does to them is let them misbehave. It’s the reason that law-abiding, constitution-thumping American businessmen turn into tax-evading, law-breaking, document-fudgers in Russia: because you can get away with it. Who wouldn’t behave like an 19-year-old jerk if he could do so with impunity? But it gets stranger. Say our average American male gets married to one of his Russian beauties. Within a day of his wedding, he immediately reverts to being a sensitive, responsible man who always brings home his paycheck, never goes on a binge with the boys (well, almost never), and willingly, uncomplainingly shares the housework. Except he’s suddenly more “romantic” than he ever was with his American girlfriends, prone to impulse purchases of imported hot-house flowers and gold trinkets fashioned by the descendants of pre-Revolutionary jewelers. You see, he’s grateful. He can’t believe his good luck: His wife doesn’t expect him to manfully bear the burdens of the world on his shoulders, she’ll listen to him in moments of drunken doubt and forgive all his weaknesses. In old Russian, the word for “pity” also meant “love,” and Russian women know how to love sympathetically better than anyone on earth (perhaps much better than American women...?). He thinks he’s died and gone to heaven. His wife is happy, too: Her husband doesn’t disappear for three days to drink away his paycheck, he’s willing to wash his own socks, and doesn’t jump on the next plane when she says, “Let’s talk.” True, he’s a bit uptight. True, it’s hard to get an indication of his emotional state out of him. But, hey, you can live with that. Odder still is what happens when Russian men fall in love with American women. At least at first, or at least in some things, they don’t misbehave with us the way they do with the women “next door.” They feel the tug of shame when they drink away their paychecks, they feel the burden of guilt if they start a second (or a fourth) affair (well, most of the time). I’m not quite sure why this happens. I suspect it’s a correlate of the reason why American men misbehave in Russia: because Russian men know they can’t get away with it. Somehow they know that we just won’t put up with the kind of blatant, unrepentant irresponsibility that Russian women silently endure (although perhaps they shouldn’t. . .?). So they just don’t try it. And they find, sometimes, that behaving like a grown-up has unexpected rewards—like self-respect, like not having all that much to confess to their drinking buddies at 3:00 a.m. We’re happy with men who admit their needs without threat of divorce or firing squad. We’re delighted with men who have blissfully uncomplicated feelings for us. True, they won’t wash their socks. And true, they break out in hives when we say, “Let’s talk.” But, hey, you can live with that.

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Originally posted by iness927: A ya toje ne poimu, chto vse russkie tak rezko nachali vozmuschatsya? Pishu specialno po russki,

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Ну, раз так, и ответим специально по-русски :)

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Originally posted by iness927: nu nasha zemlyachka, hochet otnosheniya kak ona privikla imet v Rossii, mujchina platit za restorani, da, mujchina kormit semyu, osnovnoi dobitchik deneg, chto v etom plohogo?

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Где она в России такое найдёт, разве что на Дубровке у какого-нибудь братана? Машину заставила человека поменять, а потом ноет, что не BMW, видите-ли. Топикстартер, конечно, может преувеличивать, но люди здесь отреагировали на то, что прочли.

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Originally posted by iness927: esli oni tem bolee sobirayutsya vmeste jit. Ona ved ne tuneyadez, rabotaet toje. V kajdoi semye svoi pravila, kto to zarabativaet, kto to budjet vedet, a nashi srazu nachinayut vozmuschatsya ah kakaya sterva, ispolzuet bednogo naivnogo amerikanchega...

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Ты правильно сказала, в каждой семье правила. Желательно - эти правила соответствуют чувству собственного достоинства обоих половинок. А к данной ситуации каким боком это относится? Ну я понимаю, временно, и ради сногсшибательного секса - может нормально. Cобственное достоинство, такая вещь, что утекает незаметно. А вернуть сложно.

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Originally posted by iness927: Chto menya porajaet, eto kak nashi mujchini bistrenko privikayut k amerikanskim otnosheniyam, a potom jaluyutsya chto jenschini za nimi ne uhajivayut. Ili russian ili american realtionship. I tut deistvitelno est razlichiya.

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Опять эти "американские отношения".. Что это, в конце концов, такое? Достойные мужчины, во всех известных мне культурах, женщин балуют финансово. Я с помидором в этом вопросе согласен лишь частично. Любимиую женщину надо всё-таки уважать не меньше чем себя, и жертвовать многим. Вопрос (риторический) в том, как в ответ на это, должна себя вести женшина, которая, тоже, типа, любит. Преданно, благодарно, уважительно, либо стервозно-требовательно. Не спорю - каждому своё. Но во ответ на крик души топикстартера, захотелось спасти человека от пожизненного ада. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

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Originally posted by AmericanGuy4U: My American women friends in Moscow say that something odd comes over their boyfriends when they move to Russia...

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AmericanInNeed = AmericanGuy4U, are you sure that they areyour friends? http://www.amherst.edu/magazine/issues/04summer/berdy/grass_greener.html ------------------------------------------ This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

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This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

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Originally posted by Egor: ...Не спорю - каждому своё. Но во ответ на крик души топикстартера, захотелось спасти человека от пожизненного ада. ___________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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Даже если верить этому "крику" - где там хоть слово, что он ее любит? А вообще, действительно, интересно читать, кто что увидел. ------------------------------------------ This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

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This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

а я ваще угораю над этим топиком и особенно над теми, кто взял мое выссказывание в quote!!!

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Very good!! Glad to see such attention to detail! Yes, I did cut and paste that article - but it was written by a woman and I figured that would become obvious if you read it. Fascinating reading. Personally, I don't know anything about how men and women act in Russia - I did date a Russian girl here for 18 months. (ps: she didn't really die in a car accident - things just fizzled out - but the breakup sure felt like a car accident!). After reading that article, I'm in the mood for Vodka and hot 22 year olds....how much is a flight to Moscow? The truth is - people are basically the same whereever you go. Stereotypes never translate down to individuals. oh, and I did find another article that glorified why women are attracted to alpha males - f*ck that article. laughing

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Originally posted by Mouse:

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Originally posted by Egor: ...Не спорю - каждому своё. Но во ответ на крик души топикстартера, захотелось спасти человека от пожизненного ада. ___________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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Даже если верить этому "крику" - где там хоть слово, что он ее любит? А вообще, действительно, интересно читать, кто что увидел. ------------------------------------------ This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

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Скажу так.. Мне показалось, что я его, как мужик - мужика, понял. Что его к ней тянет, не имеет значения. Даже если это в данный момент и не любовь. Что-то тянет. Кстати, заметьте, он считает, что относиться к любимой женщине нужно намного лучше среднестатистического (в любой культуре) мужчины. Я с ним это мнение тоже разделяю. По этому я его и понял. Над ним чисто стебутся. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

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Originally posted by AmericanGuy4U: Yes, I did cut and paste that article

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this article?

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My American women friends in Moscow say that something odd comes over their boyfriends......

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That article was crap :) People are so confused.. Everyone knows like 3 people and they judge the whole world by it :)

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Originally posted by AmericanGuy4U: The truth is - people are basically the same whereever you go. Stereotypes never translate down to individuals.

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Finally, someone other than me said it :)

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Originally posted by AmericanGuy4U: oh, and I did find another article that glorified why women are attracted to alpha males - f*ck that article. laughing

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Its a fine line, things are not that simple. I think "pure" Alpha males are successfull with less intelligent women, and women with low self esteem. Beta men are successful with dominant, feminist women. It's all about your target audience Neither will produce a healthy relationship if you have to act like something you are not to start it.. That's my opinion. And that is why I am always saying stop looking at cultural stereotypes. Be a man. Or a woman. Everything you need is genetic. Everything else is pure bullshit. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

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Originally posted by Egor: Что его к ней тянет, не имеет значения.

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Это Вы серьезно? Я не встречала еще ни одного человека, которому это было неважно. И когда выясняется, что же на самом деле тянуло, то реакции бывают предсказуемы. Эx, не могу такое пропустить:

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And that is why I am always saying stop looking at cultural stereotypes. Be a man. Or a woman. Everything you need is genetic. Everything else is pure bullshit.

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Генетика генетикой, а воспитание играет роль немалую. И воспитывает не только родители, но и 'культура'. Поэтому стереотипы отбрасывать - не так уж и разумно. ------------------------------------------ This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

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This is like deja vu all over again. Yogi Berra

if she can get away with this - more power to her ! if he let her - he deserves all of it .... just don;t bring love into this...

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm actually nowhere near Atlanta, I'm a safe distance away. I knew about a dozen Russians, including two Ukrainian girls, before I started dating this girl. So far as I could see, the men were very nice to the girls. All of them, especially the girls, seemed very materialistic to me (no offense intended). Plus we always hang out with one of her friends whose girlfriend refuses to work and mooches off the guy. This is why I thought the difference was just cultural. I guess not. I know this is going to sound weak, but I think she really does like me, she's just been REALLY spoiled in the past. Either way, I'm going to tell her I don't want to move in right now.

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Originally posted by Rusalochka: а я ваще угораю над этим топиком и особенно над теми, кто взял мое выссказывание в quote!!!

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Русалочка, не понял, мы тут шутки шутим или человеку помогаем?

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Originally posted by Mouse: Это Вы серьезно? Я не встречала еще ни одного человека, которому это было неважно. И когда выясняется, что же на самом деле тянуло, то реакции бывают предсказуемы.

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Имелось в виду то, что это не имеет большого значения для нас. Мне - его отношение к ней - вполне ясно. А определение "любви" - другая тема.

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Originally posted by Mouse: Генетика генетикой, а воспитание играет роль немалую. И воспитывает не только родители, но и 'культура'. Поэтому стереотипы отбрасывать - не так уж и разумно.

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Согласен - если речь о стереотипах уместных и неложных. :) О каких именно стереотипах здесь речь? Какой мужик, из какой страны, приветствует такое к себе отношение? И какая женщина, из какой страны, может себе позволить так себя вести? А позорит она, всех вас. Опять-же, благодаря стереотипам. Это логично?

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Originally posted by KGBman: if she can get away with this - more power to her ! if he let her - he deserves all of it ....

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He ALMOST let her. Because a bunch of jackasses believe in false stereotypes. He almost thought she was normal. Thank god he asked us :) Let me ask the women here, most of whom are russian.. Would you insist that your boyfriend pay 100% of rent? That he get a BMW? No? Well too bad. You have that reputation anyway. Потому, что стереотипы, как повелось, "отбрасывать - не так уж и разумно". ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

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Originally posted by AmericanInNeed: Thanks everyone for the input. I'm actually nowhere near Atlanta, I'm a safe distance away. I knew about a dozen Russians, including two Ukrainian girls, before I started dating this girl. So far as I could see, the men were very nice to the girls. All of them, especially the girls, seemed very materialistic to me (no offense intended). Plus we always hang out with one of her friends whose girlfriend refuses to work and mooches off the guy. This is why I thought the difference was just cultural. I guess not. I know this is going to sound weak, but I think she really does like me, she's just been REALLY spoiled in the past. Either way, I'm going to tell her I don't want to move in right now.

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Good for you, man. Step in the right direction. Only one little step though... If what you said is true, not only does she not like you, but she is taking advantage of you in a MAJOR way. If you think its only because she was spoiled in the past, have a talk with her. If you are right, she'll change. But unfortunately, I don't think that will happen. She knows exactly what she is doing. And you seem like a nice guy, willing to treat a woman great without being asked. She does not deserve you. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

не, это не любовь.

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music of meah

Good for you man! And if she ends up leaving you over the rent issue, let her know she always has a free place to stay here in Atlanta - she sounds hot! laughing

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