:-) dudes,

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? what "community" center? are you **** nuts?:-)

doesn't matter if it's 13 story tall or 5 stories underground. it's common sense, plain and simple.

how about going to Auschwitz with a metal detector to search for gold teeth, you dumb phucks? 

 

PS: yall know I luv yalls, don't ya? 

I'm with Egor and Pom here..

 

all analogies wrong , but here is one for you, since you mentioned Gruzia - georgian businessman buys piece of land in South Osetia and build monument to Georgian liberators of Zhinvali....

 

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

Egor:

Where is congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof? 

That's the First Amendment.  Any law or regulation which goes against it will be struck down. 

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412, everyone understands that on all sides of the issue..  No? 

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

Just wanted to throw this out there as it applies to Christian establishments (not that this is a premise to anything I have said in this topic, and I don't necessarily support banning this mosque/cultural center/whatever it is legally).  It does, however, show that the first amendment does not apply to zoning,  for those who have problems understanding the 1st amendment at face value, but instead want to reinterpret it.

Zoning laws can prevent your congregation (whether by lease or purchase) from using land or buildings in many areas. They can also prevent you from expanding current facilities.

Include a "zoning contingency clause" in any real estate contract to protect your congregation from a financial loss if permission to rezone the property is not obtained by authorities.

Check zoning laws in advance. If you plan to purchase land or expand your present facilities, check with municipal officials before you shop 

and my favorite (good advice for these assholes)

Spiritual warfare can be a factor. If your church is building the kingdom of God, be prepared for opposition. Such battles are not won with lawyers, realtors, or money, but with prayer, fasting, discernment, gentleness, and patience.

 

from: http://www.christianitytoday.com

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

Egor:

412, everyone understands that on all sides of the issue..  No? 

If so, then what's the point of the entire hubbub? 

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Because the first amendment has nothing to do with this issue, until such time that Congress passes a law that "respects an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

This is written in plain English, with words that have had the same definitions for 200+ years, and is an empirical statement with nothing to interpret. 

Additionally, I have shown how this applies in the real world to Christian establishments in the US (previous post), which corroborates that the US Supreme Court, US Lawmakers, and the American Public, all consider this to be common sense for the duration of the existence of this country. 

 

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

Man, I keep re-reading and actually do not understand any longer who is where...Are you saying you are pro-Constitution, but against the mosque? Or you are pro-Constitution and pro-mosque? Or that you are pro-constitution and pro-good-judgement-when-it-comes-to-building-places-of-worship-near-national-monuments?

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Sic semper tyrannis
~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

pro-constitution of course, but making the case that it is not relevant at this time.

pro-mosque - i don't know, why would I be pro-mosque in any situation..  I am Jewish!   But in general, I am fine with mosques and fine with American implementation of freedom of religion.

pro-good-judgement - who would ever admit to not being that?? 

 

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

412:

Egor:

412, everyone understands that on all sides of the issue..  No? 

If so, then what's the point of the entire hubbub? 

 

412, this is for sure not a legal issue.  It's more like this:  you live in a subdivision.  A new 'Love Shack' (or other porn/bong store, for those not familiar with Love Shack) begins to start being built next to your subdivision*.  Your neighbors become enraged and immediately your homeowners association begins having meetings about this.  You're sitting back, watching this unfold over the months.  You hear various reasons from your neighbors about this:  some are against it for moral reasons while others are more fixated on property values, and yet others worried about influx of crime.  So because a large group of home owners (even if not the majority) begin to complain about this, the home owners association will do what it can to stop this Love Shack from being built.  When there are no 'legal' technicalities available to stop the ongoing construction, the homeowners association, with the help of some of the outraged homeowners join forces with other, nearby neighborhoods who also agree with this point of view, and begin to call radio stations, publish material in local newspapers, pass out flyers at public places, and use word-of-mouth to basically denounce what Love Shack is doing and let the public know that this is what kind of company Love Shack is - a company that comes and ruins neighborhoods.**  And so, Love Shack will be forced to rethink its notions, and perhaps realize that it is not a good idea and not good for the company's image to continue with these plans.  Or not.  Maybe Love Shack doesn't give a sh!t about any of this and all they care about is the small number of clientelle that come in and buy/rent all 6 volumes of 'Granny gangbang girls' and they know that these people also don't give a sh!t about any of the hoopla going on).

 

And the same thing is really going on with this mosque.  It's being built, and some small part of Americans denounced this, and began to spread the word about this hoping that other, like-minded Americans will join them in denouncing this mosque-plan and they hope that will all this, somehow, they will stop this mosque from being built.  Or not.  But they are trying.  Just like in the story above.  And of course, out of all the Americans against this mosque, there's always going to be a small subset group that

a) mistakenly think we have a legal right to stop this so they will say stupid *** like "supreme court needs to stop this" or what an ass Obama is for not stopping this***.

b) offer violent solutions, like burning down the mosque

 

But please realize, that above holds true for our first story.  You'll have that one redneck that is at some point going to threaten to burn down Love Shack, etc.

So that's all there's to it, 412.  You're watching 'freedom' of religion and 'freedom of speech' take their course.  And that's a great thing.

So where do I stand here?  It's simple.  Of course they have the right to build it and no one should legally stop them.  But I think they are assholes for even doing it, considering everything that's going on.  Both assholes and idiots at the same time, because it's just really bad 'marketing' for their product.

 

Remember, 412, it doesn't have to be illegal for people to have the right to be outraged/insulted/upset about something.

 

* For those idiots who are going to respond with, "it's not being built right next to ground zero, it's 4 blocks down the road" - shut your hole...this example applies the same way.  Sheesh, what a moron...

** I don't actually believe this, as I have purchased several 'pipes' at Love Shack :)  However, I do know people with this point of view exist and in fact, many of them, so this is a reasonable scenario, but again, this is just for illustration purposes. (then again, who knows?  Maybe I wouldn't want it next to my house either..)

*** While of course Obama should not 'stop' this, I feel it may have been ok for him to just keep quiet but he is definitely an ass for coming out and openly welcoming this and saying there's nothing wrong about it.

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I agree this does not look good for the moslems now, that it was spun this way. But just maybe, they were trying to like, put their best foot forward, and tackle the issue had on. Maybe they were going to use the mosque to show that there are good and peaceful and loving moslems out there. Of course, this is not going to work now, but pehaps this was their original intent with this whole thing? And maybe, just maybe, this should have been supported?

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Sic semper tyrannis
~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

Poor muslims...always trying to make peaceful gestures and everyone always spins it somehow to make them look bad.

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IntensityInsanity:

Poor muslims...always trying to make peaceful gestures and everyone always spins it somehow to make them look bad.

nice one !!

 

 

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

IntensityInsanity:

Poor muslims...always trying to make peaceful gestures and everyone always spins it somehow to make them look bad.

Ha ha. Very funny. This is what I am saying, let them do their own mistake, and then use THAT to drive the point. Like all the weird things this imam was saying recently, it certainly made me reconsider the whole thing. But this is how successfull campaigns are waged, you force the opponent to make a mistake, and you capitalize on that. Rallying a bunch of rednecks with retarded signs is not something that should have been done. Where is the class in that?

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Sic semper tyrannis
~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"